Jo: So my first question is did- like- di you always know that you wanted to be in a creative industry or was it
something that you sort of fell in to?
Colin: That’s interesting. I think um- to be honest probably yes. Only because there’s a few- a couple of reasons. One
that actually it was kind of what I was good at and you tend to sort of gravitate towards what you’re good at, I
think. So, when I was a little kid basically, I loved drawing. And um yeah- I loved being outside and sports and
stuff but I also loved drawing and so, so yes, I kind of always had it in my mind that I would like to and quite a
few people along the way sort of said no you can’t, you won’t be able to earn a living. But I basically- that’s
always what kind of made me happy. You know you kind of – I think you- Personally I think it’s a really good
thing to do. Do a job that you basically like, you know, you basically like the work. So yeah you know in my head
I always had that in mind really from a very young age I think.
J: Ok. Did- did you go to University? Did you study a creative subject?
C: Yes.
J: Yep.
C: Yeah no basically I did study Illustration at um, at Kingston. It’s called Kingston Uni now but it was Kingston
poly.
J: Oh yeah.
C: So I did a foundation course and then I specialised in Graphics but basically just did Illustration I didn’t-
I never learnt how to do typography or anything like that (laughs). I didn’t really want to do that I just did
Illustration.
J: Right OK yeah. And Kingston’s still go a very very good Illustration degree- err Illustration Course I’m told so
that’s interesting.
C: Yeah well, the lecturers were really good and we had like the- I mean I’m sure it’s the same now just sort of a
big variety of freelance lecturers and we learnt a lot off and they were so nice. And they really encouraged us
and so I think it’s really good you’ve gone to college to do it you know.
J: Yeah. It’s kind of having the time to sort of experiment without the pressure of making money I think is what’s
nice.
C: Yeah yeah. Oh definitely that’s really a good thing to do. And also I mean you kind of see what you don’t want to
do too.
J: Yeah.
C: As well there might be some lectures you don’t like their work and that kind of thing helps as well it’s um-
J: Yeah absolutely. So what did you do when you first graduated did you go straight in with a company or-
C: Er yeah so basically, I got a graph- an Illustration degree and I wanted to be a freelance illustrator um and
when I left college I kind of- I got an agent, an Illustration agent and I started getting a lot of work pretty
quickly to be honest and in all honesty the more work I got I kind of- the lonelier I thought it was. So
actually, when you’re young you want to go out and you know see people and all my friends were like graphic
designers and I was like sharing houses with some friends and they would go off to work in their Graphics studios
and I would be left at home sort of illustrating and I just found it really lonely.
J: Right.
C: As a freelance Illustrator. So, then I thought well actually what else can I do to still draw as my living and I
thought of animation so to be honest that’s the oddest reason why I mainly ended up in animation because you work
with people.
J: Yeah. It’s more sociable and more collaborative.
C: And it completely depends on your personality I mean a lot of illustrators just love being on their own and- and
the older I’ve got funnily enough now I like it. I like being at home working on my own (laughs) but when I was
younger I didn’t I wanted to go out and have fun and meet people and all that stuff, so.
J: Right.
C: Um. Yeah so basically that’s- I kind of did a year freelance Illustration full on and then I basically from then
on I’ve worked in Animation. So I’m kind of more- I’m basically an art director and production designer for
animated films so that’s my main job but it’s using all those illustration skills. It’s kind of like drawing,
painting um it’s basically all those 2D skills that I learnt as an illustrator.
J: Hmm so would you still describe yourself as an Illustrator despite having this animator/ art director hat on?
C: Err I would definitely funnily enough. Yes Totally. Because when it comes down to it that’s where my heart is.
It’s um- I still- I illustrated- What happened- I’m trying to think- About 10 years ago now, something like that,
I took some time off because I wanted to do some books and I did quite- sort of 5 or 6 books which I really
enjoyed doing. It was a really sort of fun writer I met and he- he is very quirky and sort of (laughs) odd, quite
odd books looking at them now they’re not very commercial.
J: Right.
C: But I had a lot of fun doing those and I sort of- so- funnily enough I’ve just started working on something else
again for myself just because you know, it’s fun to-. The nice thing about books is you can sort of control the
whole thing. Whereas with um you know with a film you’ve got lots of people chipping in, it’s a bit like a
committee (laughs)
J: Right.
C: So um. Books are a little bit like that you do tend to get um editors and, art directors asking you to do stuff
and um you know but um but not as much as films.
J: OK. Do you find it’s important to sort of keep sketchbooks or do work for yourself that isn’t commercial?
C: To be honest I remember all my lecturers at college saying keep a sketchbook and it’s such a cliché but it’s so
true. The more- if you can take it on the bus, into the café, to the pub, and you know. It’s a bit um- I think of
it like being an athlete. The thing is if you want to be a good runner you’ve just got to run a lot.
J: Yeah.
C: And it’s the same with drawing and painting. Whatever your style you’ve just got to be really into it. And so
that’s why I’d advise you to definitely take sketchbooks and look at other people’s work, copy people, and your
style will come out of that. It will- Don’t try to force a style it will happen naturally, I think.
J: OK. Well that’s what’s kind of interesting looking at your work is that there is- you can kind of tell its by the
same person, there is a real variety of styles and um rendering, I mean obviously a lot of the work that I can
see on your website is like (…) for a big production so I suppose you’re tethered to a certain extent to what the
production company wants.
C: Yeah, so basically in animation you have to be really flexible and you have to be able to um- adapt to styles.
You’ll chat to the director and they might say I want it to be- for example, I want the style to be influenced by
this painter or this design or whatever.
J: Oh OK.
C: So you kind of have to be very adaptable. With Illustration often you are employed for your style. So you can be
much more- you know like Quentin Blake or Ronald Searle or whatever. So it’s a bit different really. I do think
in animation you need to be very flexible but as I say in Illustration not so much. You tend to be employed for
your style and that’s it really.
J: OK.
C: Have you seen the documentary about Ron- oh er Quentin Blake?
J: No I haven’t.
C: It’s a really nice documentary. I don’t know it might be BBC. Have a look on iPlayer BBC it might be that. It’s
like an hour long documentary about his working method. He’s a lovely old- Do you know Quentin Blake’s work?
J: Yeah. I’ve seen kind of clips of him drawing and it’s so quick it’s just-
C: Yeah I know
J: It’s just crazily like fast brushstrokes.
C: Do you know funnily enough this sounds really weird because he is a genius he’s brilliant *but* I was chatting to
my wife last week and actually the reality is there’s a lot of people that can do lovely quick sketches.
J: Yeah yeah (laughs)
C: Now this sounds awful really and I didn’t know whether to say this to you but good advice to an illustrator, is
pick a style you can do quite quickly.
J: Yeah Yeah.
C: Because basically the more- but you have to enjoy it, you have to really be in to that style. But looking at his
stuff I mean it’s fantastic but er there’s a lot of people that can do that kind of thing. Which is kind of-
actually I almost wish this wasn’t being recorded now (laughs)
J: (laughs)
C: But it is the truth it is the truth. It is worth considering when you’re planning what kind of work you like
doing.
J: Because ultimately I suppose you’re gonna get paid the same whether it’s a fully rendered double page spread or a
spot illustration.
C: Exactly
J: So you may as well save yourself some work.
C: I know yeah. And in a way that shouldn’t be the driving thing behind your style
J: No.
C: You want it to be honest and you want to love it yourself obviously but it is a consideration actually. But
anyway it’s a lovely documentary I really enjoyed it.
J: OK well I’ll have to dig that out.
C: So um-
J: What’s your favourite medium to work in? Do you like the physical media or do you prefer working digitally?
C: Well actually everything I work on in animation and actually most things on my website is digital on photoshop.
There are some- sometimes- I do still like drawing in pencil and then scanning the pencil and then putting the
value you know underneath the pencil. Um but mostly to be honest 95% is photoshop actually.
J: And that’s the number one kind of program that you use is photoshop.
C: Yes it’s the only one actually.
J: Oh right OK.
C: Yeah I did get an iPad and I’ve got procreate and stuff like that but funnily enough I work on a big Cintiq
tablet which is about- I think it’s about the 21 inch one or maybe bigger.
J: Yeah.
C: But I just I find the iPad just a bit small and a bit kind of fiddly and so I just prefer working on the Cintiq
tablet which is bigger.
J: OK.
C: But um. But all the time when I’m working in Photoshop I try to fake it so you think it’s drawn or painted on. And
to be honest there’s a lot of artists that can do that way better than me. But um basically yeah it’s trying to
give it a sort of hand drawn look. With it not being too slick. I think sometimes my stuff in Photoshop does
become a bit too slick which I’m not overly keen on to be honest.
J: But that’s the kind of nice thing about digital drawing is that it’s so easy to edit it.
C: Yeah exactly you know my favourite favourite style of people are people like Quentin Blake and ink colour and
watercolour I love all of that stuff. But when you’re working in animation you have to meet deadlines and all the
boring stuff. Photoshop is so great because if the director asks me to change the sky or whatever it’s so easy to
make those changes. Which I’m sure you know. So yeah (…)
J: OK so just like a couple more questions. How has the industry changed in the time you’ve been working? Have there
been any big developments in terms of technology or how things are done or does it feel the same as when you
first graduated?
C: Illustration wise I can’t really say that much because I haven’t- as I say most of my stuff I’ve worked for
animated companies (…) I would think. Illustration- I mean the honest truth Illustration I think is quite
difficult to ear a living because you don’t get paid very well. And I don’t think the rates have changed much in
like 20 or 30 years. Which is weird. I mean advertising used to be really well paid for Illustrators but I’m not
sure it is anymore um. Animation (…) technology’s completely changed it. I mean like when I first started it was
like- I was a background painter for Disney- and it was all in Gouache- well we did oil paints, gouache,
watercolour you know for the background so traditional painting and um- but now its almost always in 3D or 2D in
photoshop and things. Um and I have to say even though I’m not very technical at all I really like working on a
computer because you can experiment and change without the stress of messing up the painting you know.
J: Yeah (laughs).
C: I used to find that very stressful you know one slip or you spill your tea and you’ve messed up a whole days’
work.
J: Absolutely.
C: So yeah from that point of view it’s completely changed since I started in animation. I wouldn’t recognise it
anymore.
J: OK and finally what advice would you give to a new graduate?
C: (…) I think, well I could say lots of things really. I think first of all is work really hard. A boring thing to
say but treat it as if you want to be an athlete, you want to be a great um great runner or something like that.
You know some days you’re gonna wake up and think I really don’t fancy doing it but still do it. Go for that run
or do a drawing because that’s the only way you really get better. Um and study the artists you like and try to
copy them um yeah I would say that more than anything. Those two things, um, um. I remember my first boss said to
me you need two of the following three things: you need to either be really lucky, or work really hard, or be
amazingly gifted and if you’re two of those three things you’ll be successful. And I thought that was really
clever actually and if you’re all three then you’re definitely OK.
J: Yeah you’re away!
C: Um I’m trying to think what else there is. Do you have a website or are you on Instagram or anything?
J: I do have Instagram but I don’t post an awful lot. I suppose that’s the downfall of being like a creative person
is that I just like drawing and I’m not very good at the self-promotion or business side of things.
C: Oh yeah that is an interesting thing I would recommend getting a good agent definitely. When you leave college-
funnily enough as I say I don’t really work in Illustration much but when I do I always use the same agent her
name is um Penny Holroyde, I think they’re called Holroyd Carty.
J: Thank you
C: And they have about twenty illustrators. I don’t think I’m actually on their website anymore. But for example the
great thing about them is they- they just know what they going rates are and what you can ask for, what you
can’t.
J: Right.
C: So they’ll always pay for themselves if you get a good agent. And the nice thing is it’s someone to chat to and
you can bounce ideas off. Obviously, I can’t recommend a good agent enough. Plus they know everyone in the
industry and it’ll save you that embarrassment of asking for the money.
J: (laughs) Yeah.
C: Also they’re nice people and they love illustration and they put you in touch with the writers and that kind of
thing. So definitely try to get an agent when you leave college I think. Yeah um plus, I’ve been lucky enough to
sell a couple of projects as film- basically film companies buy an option on a book. Doesn’t mean they’re gonna
make the film but hopefully at some stage they might. But- for example, Penny negotiated a contract for that and
she asked for things I’d never even thought of. So definitely I would do that if you can. And you know what I’m
sure your lecturers will have ideas, people to ask, people to avoid and things like that. I would ask them, the
illustrators you like that come in, have a chat to them about their agents and what they’re like. Um, anything
else (…) I’ve got ten minutes I’ve got a meeting at half past so-
J: (laughs) OK.
C: At some stage I’d be happy to show you my work actually. Show you how I work in photoshop and that kind of thing
if you want to.
J: Yeah, that would be great. That would be fab yeah yeah. Well, that’s it from my list of questions but can you
tell me about anything you’re working on at the moment or I suppose it might be a bit hush hush?
C: Yes so, I’m working for Illumination Entertainment. They’re basically the company that produces the Minions
films, Despicable Me, Secret Life of Pets, um- The Grinch. At the moment I’m working on a really nice film
directed by Benjamin Renner. He’s a really clever French director, a really nice chap actually and um he wrote a
great kids book called, oh what’s it called I’ve got it here, the big bad fox. You can get it on amazon actually
it’s a really sweet really funny little paper back book.
J: Yes I’ll have to look at that.
C: So, he’s directing the movie. I can’t really say what it’s about actually at the moment. I think I’ve got another
year on that. But because of covid it’s all been delayed a bit I think it’s coming out in I think Autumn 2023 I
think.
J: Oh right OK. Is that to sort of ensure there are people going to cinemas to see it or?
C: Yeah basically that’s the whole reason they’ve kind of, a bit like the bond film they’re just holding everything
back a bit.
J: Right OK.
C: So we’ve just released Sing actually, or Sing 2 and I think it’s doing alright actually at the Box Office.
J: Oh fab.
C: But I didn’t work on it actually but that should be fun I think.
J: Do you prefer working on the bigger animations or working on books and doing more self-directed stuff? Or is it
nice to have a balance of both?
C: For me I think a balance of both is really good. I think it’s really important to have something of your own to
work on to keep you going (laughs). You know but then I also like animation because you work with a lot of other
talented people and you learn a lot from other people. It’s amazing how many talented people there are in an
animating studio.
J: I think that’s what makes me a little bit nervous about going in to freelance illustration is if- as you were
saying it sounds a bit lonely and I don’t know if I would work very well kind of being by myself, beavering away.
I quite like being in an environment with other people and other things going on.
C: Yeah it is -I mean I know- there’re are a lot of illustrators who get desk space
J: Like a studio?
C: Up in town or- so that’s always a good option
J: Yeah and then you’re working alongside other people on their own projects.
C: Yeah exactly. I’m sure if you go online you can find desk space with other illustrators or other artists or other
creative people. And I think that’s a really great idea. And it stops you being stuck at home and things.
J: Yeah and it makes you- I quite like having a sort of a job to turn up to. It’s quite nice going oh someone’s
expecting me at eight o’clock got to show up and be presentable.
C: Well funnily enough that was exactly the reason I got in to animation. Funnily enough I went for two interviews
in a row. The first one was a famous. He had a famous company called Rickard Williams and he asked me you know
why do you want to work in animations and I told him I thought it was just very lonely being at home as an
illustrator (laughs). And he said well that’s not a good enough reason so he didn’t give me the job. So the next
day I had another interview and I thought do I lie? And then I thought no I’ll tell the truth and I said you know
I don’t like working on my own and the guy said fair enough so you know. It comes down to personality really. But
there are ways round it you can get desk space with friends or something you get on with, other artists, you know
it doesn’t haven to be a great big place.
J: Yeah but I think that’s something that’s not really discussed when you’re picking your subjects at school or when
you’re having any kind of conversation about a career there’s never really any discussion of well do you want to
be sat at a desk or do you want to be outside, do you want to be interacting with people, do you knot – the
lifestyle aspect of a job isn’t really talked about that much but it is so important.
C: That’s totally true. And even when you go to college it’s not discussed much.
J: No, no. It’s all about the content of the work you’re doing and everything is sort of a bit forgotten about.
C: Yeah definitely it’s funny I don’t know why it’s not. Funnily enough. I went through 4 years of college and I was
just about to leave and it just dawned on me oh no people are going to ask me to paint or draw what they want.
J: (laughs) Yeah.
C: I’d never even thought about it. And I suddenly thought I don’t want to draw what other people want me to. And
I’d just spent 4 years and it was so weird. It took me ages to get used to drawing what other people asked me to.
All the time I was so close to saying no I don’t want to do it like that.
J: (laughs)
C: So yeah you do get used to it though. What you tend to do is try to squeeze out something that interests you from
each job. You kind of steer it in a certain way. Oh I like this or- you can push most jobs in a certain direction
that you like.
J: Right so you can put a certain amount of yourself in to it.
C: Yeah I think it’s very important to do that yeah. Yeah (…) I can’t think of anything else to say.
J: Brilliant. Well I’d better let you go if you’ve got a meeting at half past.
C: Yeah, another zoom meeting at half past. Well, I tell you what definitely keep in touch and I’d be really happy
to take a look at your work
J: Oh thank you.
C: Or give you any suggestions or you know totally. Absolutely I’d be happy to do that. We live in Betchworth so if
you wanted me to show you how I work I’d be happy to show you.
J: That’s fab that’s absolutely fab thank you so much I really appreciate it and you’ve been really lovely and
really helpful so-
C: Not at all.
J: Thank you!
C: Well good luck!